Freelance to Founder - How I Finally Became My Own Boss

On today’s episode (the final episode in our eighth season) I want to turn the tables and share with you an interview I did with my friends Marc and Julia at The Clearing. I’ve done dozens of interviews over the years, but Marc seems to ask the perfect questions in this interview—leading to one of the best conversations on freelancing I’ve ever had on the air. We discuss getting freelance jobs, what to focus on when building a portfolio, how to build passive income, and lots more. In fact, Marc

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Hey there, I'm Preston Lee and I'm clay Mosley. And this is freelance to found her the journey from freelancing to running. Your own agency comes with its own unique set of challenges challenges that can I have both faced while building our own successful businesses. And on this show. We sit down with Freelancers and agency Builders like you for value pack tan are coaching sessions with one Focus taking your business from freelance the founder we love to have you join us on the air For an upcoming episode to learn how to get your free coaching sessions like the guests you here on our show visit freelance to founder. Calm and click on the microphone icon. We are here and ready to help you take action in your business on today's episode the final episode in our 8th season. I want to turn the tables and share with you an interview. I did with my friends Mark and Julia at the clearing. I've done tons of interviews over the years, but Mark seems to ask the perfect questions in this interview leading to one of the best conversations on freelancing I've ever had on the air in fact

Mark and Julie are two fellow Freelancers who have helped a whole bunch of people embark on the freelance Journey getting their first clients and making good money as a freelancer in as little as a couple of weeks. They love jump-starting Freelancers careers, and you should visit them at the clearing. IO to learn more from them. They're super talented in my interview mule here a bit about my backstory along with some of my best advice for starting and growing and sustaining your freelance business. I hope you enjoy this unique episode. I will push play on the interview for you right after this quick message from our sponsors.

Support for freelance to founder comes from notion the all-in-one tool for taking notes managing projects and seamlessly collaborating with your team with notion. You can easily record share and update your growing companies procedures just like we talked about on this show whether you're a team of two or 200 notion helps you and your team stay on task find what you need and collaborate efficiently all in one place, but 10% off 18 plan head over to notion that. Com freelance. That's a notion. Com freelance to get 10% off a team plan.

Mineral helps Freelancers start their own business charge what they're worth and level up their relaxing. So I'll hand it over to mark for questions.

Great. Thanks so much to buy Preston. Welcome again for my side as well.

Thank you so much. Great to be here. So I think first and foremost will be great to hear since you've been doing this for so long, but everything has to start with the first project somewhere, right? So, I think it'd be great. If you could tell us a little bit about your story how you landed that first gay and how you went from there to helping thousands of other aspiring Freelancers.

I love that. I think every like you say every freelancer story starts differently mine started quite early on I don't know if I can even identify the first real gig that I had but I do remember as a teenager, you know in high school. I had a couple of companies. I guess I've been trying to remember through actions. I was on the yearbook staff meeting I offered with the page layout in the design of the yearbook and the writing and a couple of things artistically there and I think see your butt teacher had a friend who owned the company who needed a logo and so I designed them a logo on it was probably terrible but I thought that was probably the first paid freelance gig that I had a fight if I can reload back far enough and I was probably 16 or 17, but in reality might my actual freelancing started more in my University years, and I was at freelancing through the last couple years of college.

That's how I put my my wife and myself to our last couple years of college. And so I worked as a graphic designer and a web designer just designing all sorts of different things. And that's actually when I started riding lots of my experiences us as a freelancer as well on my blogging and sort of started out as a little hobby or five project. So it was it was really those early days of

You know either getting some freelance work or not being able to buy food or go to school or I guess getting a real job clinical real job. Obviously. Those are there really early days of writing for me amazing. So quite expensive stuff right from the get-go and seems to have it be independent and have it be driven by you and your decision drive me nuts. Are we something at the central part of anybody who makes the decision?

Yeah, absolutely. And I think there's always been for some reason inside of me this drive to to align my life actions with my priorities. And so we know we didn't have kids at the time. We have a few kids now, but but I was just newly married like I say finishing up school, but I remember when I was a boy, I don't even know maybe 13 or 14. I remember reading an article about Charles Schulz see the creator of Peanuts Charlie Brown if you're familiar with it, and he and his daughter had written this very touching sort of obituary but a little bit more than that and that she had explained how she never knew when she was younger that her dad had a job and I was still and hammered with that idea that that he was so available to them that she had no idea as a young child that you know, like she couldn't figure out how her friend's dad's were never home and why they didn't come home till 6 or whatever and I just like fell in love with that idea so much.

I remember that was sort of the seed that was planted in me for figuring out. Yeah my own economy and figuring out how I could build a life around my work instead of Vice Versa Amazing Grace story. So take us through the next steps. How did you go from being able to secure a regular gigs to really taking it to the next level 3 building up that experience that allows you to carry it forward. You know what? I wish I had like this amazing story when I started with smaller clients, I grew to medium clients. I now have giant client. It didn't actually work that way. It was sort of a a roundabout sort of Journey suppose. If we dig deep enough in most Freelancers Journey, that's probably true of most of us, but I freelance my way through school. Yes, right as my wife and I was finishing up University. We found out that we were expecting our oldest son and that for those who have kids like, you know, that that kind of does something to you like all the sudden. Yes. I was supporting myself and my wife my wife was

So working so we are sort of supporting each other that way and then all the sudden it was like, oh, wow. This is going to be on me at least for a little while to just report my wife and my son is so actually ended up getting a full-time job out of college and my freelancing and my blogging really helped me get a really high caliber jobs, like it really set me apart from other entry-level students of that was a definite advantage that I have from those early days of freelancing. Let's be honest and kind of running my own business kind of got put on a back burner for a little while. I took a really great job out of school, which led me to a couple promotions company and and all the while I was still freelancing on the side and really building my business as a as a blogger talking to other Freelancers. I'm helping Freelancers start and grow their businesses as well. But but that all led up to a moment later on where I couple jobs later or was let go from a text start.

Ran out of funding and and I was able to take my my now blog and business all about freelancing as able to take it full time. And that's what what I do now full-time as for me and my family and it allows me to live a lifestyle that I that I read about so many years ago, you know, my youngest daughter. I don't comprehend what a job is necessarily and I really love that.

Passing on the trunk Shields Legacy. She doesn't have to be this thing from like one client who knows to Clyde's next month and three times the next that's definitely something erotic about this or something stop and go about it. It's only predictable About It Right Glee how it is, you know first couple of months first couple beers even and that's totally fine if that's all right, if that's how it is. And you know, we we hear from other people as well as you build this Up Overtime, right? You're Moonlighting as far as you not a steady jumping in the deep end than just backing that big big enough flying to just for yourself right away. So you doing these things on nights and weekends eventually, there's a prostate affect where you can jump off the bandwagon and get onto the street that way

Oh, yeah, there's there's any number of stories like that. You said a little bit with this is that and how you can do that a little bit about someone doing that because some of the things that we've heard as well and that we talked as well when we talked a few dancers. It's very difficult to be your own best sales agent. That's be your own sort of salesperson your own still seem right because of the creative especially in Islamic study. Where are your strengths are what are this? What I sent struggles do you see in me knows that something that you see is well from my experience in obviously freelancing myself, but then the recruiting dozens of expert Freelancers who may be did have more about linear path from like one clients to clients to more of an agency style dozens of those kind of Freelancers contribute to my side and so I work closely with them to learn what they've learned about freelancing and so I've had my finger on the pulse of freelancing for over a decade now and I would I would say

Even more so been like yes. Yes this issue a particular. It was creative, you know a lot of designers and writers this issue of Being Ian. Salesman is is of course difficult. I would say that even more than that a lot of Freelancers. They don't think they're not even thinking about sales which sounds ridiculous to those of us who have done it and you know how it works right? But but so many of them when I get started their thinking about like, how do I make my portfolio look pretty or how what should my company name beer should when I send email should I say we or should I say I if it's just me you like there's all these little things that they're worried about any of those little things pile up like a pile of Pebbles and in can just come suffocate someone who's trying to get some Traction in their freelance business My Philosophy is to let all those things go and focus like you said on sale on getting clients in the door and sales like such a scary word for Freelancers sometimes

For all the reasons that you mentioned, but but really that's if you're not if you're not booking client, if you're not selling clients, you're not getting business in the door. Then you're freelancing is so far. Just a hobby. It's not a business. You're not in business yet. And so that's that's the number one thing I see is like people Tinker so much on all the little details when in reality what you needed to leave from clients in the door. So absolutely we see that as well and I think that one of the things that's that's probably at work and at play here is

It's a much more difficult thing to face, right? It's much easier to sort of yourself up with a nice name or worry about what you look like and start looking and I build my portfolio up your advices Einstein yesterday, right? Absolutely. In fact, there's research that shows that the same endorphins that you get when you accomplish something. You also get a bit of them saw dopamine hit when you share those goals with other people and I feel like it's kind of the same which which is actually to your desk because then that means a lot of times you've already got the dopamine hit your kind of said and you end up not going for not reaching your goal is not even trying because you are ready and we'll benefit of telling people about your goals. It's because research I found a really interesting and I thought that it kind of a quite a bit while we're talking about to wear for a long time. We can play business we can play freelancer and me feel really good cuz we

Cool website we have a cool business name. We tell our friend that were freelancing and talk about of a post on Facebook and all the stuff. But in reality, we're not making any money or it for very little money. So we're not really in business still part of me. Yeah wants to say don't talk about it. Don't don't do all these little things until you've got clients like you say yesterday you need clients right now. That's a great piece of advice as well. I think don't go and shut it off the rooftops. If you know, you're not actually banking anything yet. Like that's when you actually want to go out and like spread that information. No, not that you started a business but that you actually in business and you're not even started until you're in business. Well, obviously like you can spread the word around to help generate business and bring you might have a friend who recently lost his job and in the first couple weeks. He was freelancing full-time. Wanted to give it a go. He look like $9,000 in new business in a couple weeks. So he went

0 to $9,000 in business I'll be call from is Network just by telling people. I hey, I lost my job. I'm not planning on getting another one. I want a freelance, you know, can I help you? The only one I can help but obviously benefit in talking about it. But but if you if you play business you're getting that little dopamine hit before you really deserve it and then it can be easy to never get the traction that you re so what are some of the ways that people were just getting out of the gate control think about prioritizing steps customers first. All right, what else do they need to be thinking about? What are some of the top three items that say other than just pushing sales?

Yeah, one of my favorite things to talk about with Freelancers of the idea of a minimum viable portfolio. If you're familiar with start of World Tech world, then you're familiar with the idea of a minimum viable anything like them in the Bible product or an ID or something and basically the short of it is what's the minimum amount I can do to prove that this is going to work and so an app developer OR tech company might develop the bare-bones version of their app just to prove that customers. Are you interested in the value proposition to do the same thing with her portfolio? They can develop a minimum viable portfolio to say can I even get anyone to look at this? And when they do look at this are they even interested at all in the kind of work that I'm offering and so a minimum viable portfolio might be instead of you know, 20 pages with 20 projects and long about page and videos and all this interactive stuff and super elaborate takes months and months or maybe years to develop.

Inception you could build a one-page, you know use a drag-and-drop. It may not be perfect. It may not be breathtaking but it it gets the job done and you can start sending it to potential clients Gathering feedback and instead of imagining in your brain. All of these scenarios are things that clients might want you get actual real life feedback from real life potential clients saying I really like your you know what you're offering but I have a hang-up with this with this or I have this question. You can start to add those things into your minimum viable portfolio and build it out from there if that works for you is sitting somewhere online use analytics to see how people are interacting with it right and make it part of your sales funnel ride, which which projects are converting to a contact page which ones are making people get in touch maybe drop the others or highlight those buy some some reason like to make your decisions than what the highlight and how to reduce. Yes. Absolutely.

Stop this quite a lot on the internet and and something that I that always resonates with people is.

You know, somebody was going particularly designers. I work with a lot of designers, but I've seen this across all disciplines. But but your portfolio is not a place to show off its not a place to make you look beautiful and your work with beautiful like yes, I have to be a piece of it but really the purpose of your portfolio is to convince someone to hire, you know, any chance that you give them to click away from your side any chance that you give them to dive too deep into a project or into thumbnails and just like you lost looking at things like you say if it's not a funnel then any chance you give someone to accept that funnel is is bad for business right until the purpose of your portfolio is actually to sell you to a potential client or to start a conversation at a minimum where they can then reach out and you can start the sales process.

I mean you can have the most beautiful image Rich portfolio. If it takes too long to load on your website. That's it. Exactly. It ranks lowering Google the client won't stick around the potential client won't stick around to wait for it to load. Like there's all of these detrimental side effects and and you know what, there's plenty of opportunities to share your work elsewhere. If you want to show off your work feel free, but your portfolio shouldn't be the place that you do it that show off on dribble or you know where we're on behance or whatever you want to show off your work again talking about designers. But of course, there's options for all sorts of Freelancers, but but yeah don't use your portfolio as a sales tool not as a place to just highlighted show off your perfect Mexican bit of advice, I think.

Right, if you have a website and then people tend to ask you have you worked in this industry before because they saw one logo on there like, oh, I'm in this industry and I want to know do they have more it's actually I don't know and stay by the way, if you're interested, I have done seven other logos or seven other piece of work with seven other clients in this industry ask me about them. Write me an email right here. So then they trying to feel like she knows what I'm thinking or he knows what I'm thinking and that makes him feel much more trusting much more comfortable and you're helping them along to get in touch with you and your kind of helping them forward and that's how you can also do it within person feels right adapter pitch and kind of workbook questions that everyone always at the end you can kind of already work them in and say now most people ask me this or now probably might be thinking this was here is my answer to that. They're going to notice me.

She might be able to help me with my issues. Maybe she she also knows more about my company then I think she might so that establishes trust as well.

Apsara on if you do it right and you pay attention and I and I would study a little bit of copywriting if you're not a ride or naturally because coffee riding is going to be your best friend when building your portfolio online. But if you do it, right and you listen to feedback you can actually get the clients will actually write your copy for you the way they talk about your work the way they talk about hiring you you can use all of those words as pieces of the copyrighting for your portfolio to to show clients. Like you say that you can speak their language in the more you can speak that language the more comfortable they're going to feel in continuing down that sales process.

Hey, everyone is Preston. You know, we've been building a community of Freelancers over at Millo for more than a decade and I'm not kidding. When I say that every time someone asks for recommendations on time tracking tools. There's one app that always dominates the conversation and that's pagal as a freelancer time is by far your most valuable asset. But if you're anything like me you had your fair share of days where you sit back at the end and wonder what did I actually get done today with toggle? You don't have to wonder anymore toggle is a simple time tracker that helps you get things done and see how much your time is actually worth. It. Does that through its robust yet? Simple sweet of tools including detailed reports project estimates calendaring and more plus you can get toggle on any device. So no matter where you're doing your work your tracking important details about your time basic time tracking on toggle is completely free for Freelancers as your team grows and you need more features and their plans started just $9 a month to try toggle for free visit toggle. Com.

T f t o g g l. Com FTF or you can click the link in the show notes.

Support for freelance the founder comes from notion the all-in-one tool for taking notes managing projects Charon docks and seamlessly collaborating with your team on the show. We talked a lot about building the right systems to take you from freelancer to founder and with notion. You can easily record share and update all of your company systems and procedures with your growing team. But there's two of you or 200 notion is flexible and customizable so you can set it up for how you and your team work best with one still a nap. You'll replace dozens of single-purpose apps like Google Docs Trello Evernote and others and rather you just recently begun learning how to work on a remote team or you've been doing it for years. Now, you know, the toughest challenge is efficient communication and teamwork both notion you and your team can stay on task find what you need and collaborate efficiently all in one place for 10% off a team plan head over to notion that. Com freelance that's notion. Com free lamp to get 10% off a team plan.

Awesome. Let me get back to advise Freelancers, which is as they're starting off not to be too picky with their clients, right? Yeah little bit more about that. And when can you actually allow yourself to Be Loved Before Vicky?

This is maybe counterintuitive or or something that I I met, you know, I may get some backlash for referring this advice. But again, it's based on over a decade of experience working with real answer than and particularly working with new. It do Freelancers people who want to get some traction and what you see so often online is advice which is good intentions, but it's bad advice in my opinion and that is a charge what you're worth like

Yes, I guess if you dive deep enough, it's good advice, but charge what your worth is is so easy to say and so hard for people to comprehend what that means and and I think actually people are interpreting it wrong half of the time. So if I've been freelancing for 15 years, right, I'm going to charge something completely different than someone who's been freelancing for 6 months. And if if the 6-month freelancer gets into a forum and said like I really want to figure out how to get higher paying clients or I can't figure out why my client is being so awful or why you know why they keep changing everything. I mean if they complain about something about their clients in the 15-year freelancer says, why are you charging what you're worth?

And what they mean by that is like are you trying what I'm charging? Cuz I don't have crappy clients. They don't beat me up and don't treat me bad. Right? Well, yeah, you've been investing time and energy into good clients for 15 years. And if this six months pre Lancer tries to charge what you're charging. He's never going to get any business in the door. And so yes, you have to charge a good amount and most Freelancers if we're being honest can probably charge more than they're charging. But in reality you have to make sure when you're getting started or in the middle age start of the middle ground of your friends business the man, you know, as you're approaching started that you're not being too picky again, it's about getting Revenue in the door like you are a business and so if you're so incredibly picky that no one wants to hire you can't get any projects then pretty soon. You're going to be at your day job again because

Again, thank a call a freelancing right is to support your lifestyle. So yeah, I always say in the beginning as you as you get older and wiser and more experience. You can and should get more picky and that'll come naturally and also like if you're being picky about who you're working with, maybe you're going to be picky to work with as well, which is something that climbs don't want to see that's also true. Yeah, and I think there's lots of other benefits of of not being an ass pic you like if you in the beginning that you can you gain confidence by showing that someone actually wants to hire you you're at least good enough for somebody right back can be a real confidence. You never know. Also, what kind of Advantage you'll find later from the network of clients that you build you can bring in referrals, you know, this smaller client that you maybe didn't deem as worthy could have a friend who run the much bigger.

Funny who needs similar services and they might refer you you get client testimonials. You learn what it's like to work with a client you decide if you really want to do this kind of work long-term before there's you know, a huge hundred-thousand-dollar project on the line. So there's lots of benefits to do really not being all too picky in the beginning.

Yeah, and I'm so the power of referrals is definitely one thing that I wanted to come back to as well and talk to talk to you about time. You give a really good piece of advice how you can initiate that power of referrals which is by over-delivering for early-stage clients that right. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. If you are, that's what if you surprise and Delight which is a pretty common I guess marketing turn mower sales term if you surprise and Delight your clients, they will talk about you. So you won't believe what my writer did what he's like

He delivered this thing and it was incredible and it and it, you know ranked number one in Google within a couple months. So then when a friend comes along and I just can't get any, you know, search traffic to our site feel like I know you should hire John because he delivered this article to us fast and it rang Tang Google and that's exactly what you're looking for. Something like that. Right? So yeah, I over delivering is the best way to get clients talking to new potential clients in the future. Even if it's sending that at some point you probably have to curb off a little bit as you don't even like mayonnaise different projects. But yeah, especially for those already staged a solid piece of advice, I would agree. I think you can keep it up with most clients and maybe not to the extreme that you can in your early days, but you can always over you can always under-promise and over-deliver, right so you can always say it's going to take me 3 weeks and then when it takes you 2 weeks, they're delighted that it came faster than I was supposed to when does always an opportunity to do that?

Anchor Point as well

You better mind your the restarts on your side as well. This is one of many times. I want to reference your side because there's some great tools there. There's great stuff there which were still going to get talking about. But on on Miller., middle of Co is a template somewhere sitting there as well know that helps people bring those referrals. I'm bored.

Are y'all we've got quite a few email templates and bees come like I mentioned before and directly from fellow Freelancers agency Builders people who were actually doing this in the real world and you can look at their email template to generate referrals. You know, there's one I'm picking up in particular from a friend of mine named David and he would send us out to his clients after he was done with the project and just say you know why I let you see what's in the template book. Basically, I'm sure we can ensure we can add a link here. But basically he would say

Thanks for working with me on this project and hear some who did together. And you know, I'd love a referral if you know anyone who's who's looking for this kind of work if you think I did a good job my business relies on referrals and I love to hear from you. So you can take that actual template or script the David uses in the real world adapt it for your invoice and styling on situation and send it right out and start getting referrals right away so I can keep our referral to me. There's one thing that people have to keep in mind with this is why I think that there's eventually as you get going and then you start going from like going Beyond just doing kegels actually having it become what you're doing full-time going Beyond just being that Hired Gun right that actually started moving into solopreneurship and it's a whatever is to come next right agency Builders projects coming, right?

Exponential when you have that effect on your side referrals would be one of the key things that hang to help help grow that business what were some of the other things that you can do what else can they rely on how they can filled out their Network how they can you know events that can go to anything else that that you've seen help Freelancers grow out of that early stage eez to think of other Freelancers as your competition and in some scenarios, they certainly are but but what I love about the freelance economy is there are so many of us and there's so much work to be done that but in reality. I think we all have a lot more to benefit from one another than we do to try to hide from one another or that we would benefit if we if we tried to stay around Silo and so like you say attending events or even just networking with other Freelancers online, you know, there's tons of Facebook group. We have one where the answer is just pop in and Els am having this issue with this client of never.

This problem before can anyone help me a milk at season's Freelancers in there giving real-world advice on how to solve a particular problem that can be extremely helpful. Another way. I've seen Freelancers kind of their business to the next level is focusing on productizing or building recurring Revenue models, which is maybe a conversation for another day that can be a gigantic conversation. But but thinking instead of trading hours service hours for money from your client you instead trading of value proposition a product a sort of packaged, you know, maybe you charge a certain amount a month or a certain amount per project report for actual worth in value that you complete. So that's that's what I've seen that is a major Tipping Point for a lot of Freelancers is going from hourly to either value for project-based for productized service.

App that has a goal like two three four years down the line and just think of what could come if they continue down this path and if they do it, right? I'm just the idea of being able to do that and also to build passive income dentist you give you some advice about that as well. There's so many different ways. I can happen. I'd love to hear a couple of those ways that you can send a broadcast through like your paternity is established that even though I was going to have to build passive income as well. Yeah 100% so I let me know at the summit here. We're going to be joined by my friend Tom Ross and Tom is a fantastic entrepreneur. He runs a company called design tuxedo good friend of mine and he helps designers make passive income, you know designers who sell on his Marketplace make passive income as customers come in and buy the design elements that they've created an enlisted on the marketplace. You may have heard of 3/8 of Market. It's sort of a similar idea where you make something once and you sell it to customers multiple times.

Make an icon set alarm at make a texture set or I might make you know, any any number of Design Elements template or anything like that and then I create them once and people buy them over and over again. And so this creates or passive Revenue over time. Another way you can do it is to build in, you know up cells or maybe not upstairs but secondary cells into your client process, you know, if your a web designer, for example, you could you could offer to sell them hosting you could there a couple ways you could do it a company called flywheel lets you actually sort of keep an extra margin on top of the house in your client pay so they pay you and then you put you pay flywheel. Any sort of man is the whole thing or you could just send them an affiliate link and you would get a certain amount of the revenue each month from the house. Do you send them to a person have to set that all up ahead of time but there are there are a myriad of ways as you get creative and you're going to feel like you can work passive income into the other work that you're already doing.

Passive income assertive is sexy like dream that a lot of people talk about in business. Most people who talk about passive income aren't just sitting on a beach sipping Mai Tais and bullets about making money. There are some people who do that I suppose but most people who are talking about passive income or actually working really hard. And so I think there's definitely ways to work in more passive or recurring income into your freelance business while you continue to do the work that you actually enjoy

No matter where you are on the path of building a business. That's bigger than just you sooner or later. You're going to need to invest in people, you know the clay and I recommend finding good people sooner than later. The right team can make the difference between growing a business you love and falling behind his laying out and getting another day job. I've experienced this firsthand getting the right people on the team have been the best investment I've ever made in my business. My team is everything to me when you're ready to make your next tire. I recommend you start with LinkedIn jobs, since LinkedIn has over 690 million members worldwide. It can easily screen candidates with skills. You're looking for and put your job listing in front of qualified future teammates automatically when your business is ready to make that next higher find the right person with LinkedIn jobs right now, you can pay what you want and get the first $50 off just visit freelance. Again, that's freelance to get $50 off your first job post terms and conditions apply.

Hey guys, it's Preston here. Have you heard of the business casual podcast? If not, you should definitely add it to your list of must listen shows. It's hosted by Kenzie Grant and morning Brew, you know morning Brew the folks to put out the seriously one of the best business newsletters ever made Kenzie breaks down the biggest stories in business and interviews your favorite thought leaders CEOs and high-profile experts in a way that sounds like just a couple of friends just mean of swapping stories over lunch or something. It's a fantastic show and I highly recommend you listen to it. You can find business casual wherever you get your podcast.

Yeah, no definitely not to be underestimated the work that does go into it. I mean one of the great examples of passive income stream that your name on your side as well as teaching which I think is great because that's not one that comes to mind as intuitive as others like marketplaces or even gift idea what you mentioned the teaching like having a great opportunity as well. You could send you can send those to your client. You can say, you know, it's all set up your website's ready to go. If you have any questions about how it works, you know, my course is $50 at a walk you through all the nitty-gritty of how work from if you build it back into the price of their package or I reached out to freelancer before have them help me with some work and when I've declined to hire them they'll say no problem. I understand my prices might be a little high for what we're offering but we do have this course that teaches you what we do and it's

You know only $200 or something. So if I don't want to pay $2,000 to hire a freelancer, I can go and watch that course for $200. They make a little bit of money on the course. I save money by figuring out how to do it myself. And so it's kind of a win-win my minimum. You can refer them back to the course that you might have put on line and say well for a lot less money you can just get that and that way you can still back something. I mean, yeah instead of losing instead of losing those people you still you build Goodwill with them and they don't go away angry like thinking day wasted all the time. They have an option still in the new. Yeah, you get the bank a little bit extra that's more passive because you created the course was a lot of work, but you've done it once do that potentially with all of the lower and leads that you don't want to work with her. They can't work.

Maybe they have a person understands it better. So they're not reliant on an outside Source. I've had a couple of times she was worried about that whenever I was able to respond to them to listen to you always be independent from me because I just want you to know that what I'm providing for you is like he coughs and then I want for you to be able to make thing this at a lower. They were really happy to know that their interest for my interest and that way they trusted me much more and they were super willing to pay the full price on what I offered them know they can trust that that I would actually give them give them what they need so that they can miss me the results or even level them up. If you want a lower price option, here's my cords. And then if you ever have a question we can just do hourly hourly consulting or hourly.

Knee popping in and taking care of it. So that helped a hybrid model vacuum help you and it's also less time for you that you need to spend on work on more clients on the other end.

I love that.

Best thing to another opportunity still to refer people back to your site again one more time. I'm at Mill because you have a list of talk to him. I loved it goes from education learning including some of the ones we just talked about the web hosting to CRM to you know, the legal time tracking payroll Just One Stop Shop for like ever need so like absolutely one more reason to go check out the west side and help yourself to to some input there and one more thing you have on the website that we had love for you to talk to us a little bit of a Muir podcast as well. Which has you it's a weekly episode. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for the chance to talk about it. And right now we're we're telling the stories of Freelancers and solopreneurs who have scale their business be much bigger than themselves. And so

You know, we talked to people like Mike Mike McDermott of a fresh Pepsi founded French books and he started as a freelancer himself who couldn't find good software for sending invoices now, he runs a massive company on together with a couple other people helping Freelancers through one of the best pieces of software on the market for Freelancers, you know, we talked to the founder of convertkit Nathan Berry who started as a freelancer himself and decided to develop. I'm he was a blogger and he decided develop email email marketing software for bloggers, and I'm so there's just he's really cool stories about people who who started as a freelancer a started on their own and then grew their business to be to be bigger and not necessarily huge tech companies, I guess.

Tampa Bike Share vertex companies, but we also talked to you you are my friend David and Lou Who started two different creative agencies or a clay Mosley who started an agency after after he was doing his own thing as a freelancer for a while. So free stories in there. We're pivoting the show next year to be a little more tactical in nature. So it's going to be a lot like the conversation. We're having today actual action. You can take to grow your freelance business and grow it to that sort of more founder level to where you're running a business instead of just exchanging hours for more money. So it's always changing and I'd love to have anyone take a listen and send me some people everywhere you listen to podcasts. You can just search freelance to found her and you'll you'll find it so much about the upsides and about the potential and about scaling in about

You interviewed as well. Surely. There's some downsizing some hardships as well that I think to be fair and balanced equation ever. So slightly like this a little bit about that tattoo realism some of the hardships on the downsides what are some of the things that people you talk to find the artist play most about you know me.

Yeah, you know there isn't there is an emotional toll that comes with freelancing most definitely there be a lot to deal with when when you're not just collecting a paycheck from your boss every two weeks or every 30 days or whatever. You know that the roller coaster Feast famine cycle, whatever you want to call it is very real for many Freelancers. And so you know what I think we talked about today, but but those are very real concerns for freelancing. You should be aware of them as you go into it or as you continued progress and freelancing. The good news is is you'll never Fame situation for your entire life. You can always adjust and pivot if you have to go get a part-time job supplement your feelings and coming so you can make a little bit more you can do that. If you are employable once before your employable again, so you can always go back and get a job for a year or two while you get your freelancing back under you are always options, but there's definitely definitely take the

A strong-willed person to make it happen, but you can do it people who want who really truly want to do it can do it and I've seen people from all walks of life from all countries and backgrounds and cultures. I see all kinds of people do it. Successfully. Everybody doesn't in their own way and you can definitely do it and there's another amazing resource that I know we can share which is a solid, right? There's a way that people can actually access those gigs and have them sent to them right is spun instead of having sex all the time. I'm just a little bit about Sonic cakes.

Yeah, I mean we all run a website called solid gigs and it's ya our whole mission is to provide a really high-quality freelance jobs to Freelancers. And so you know, what we noticed in working is real answers for so long with it. So many people were spending so much time every week just searching through job boards and listing them Facebook groups and all the places Craigslist and all the many places that so many of us search for freelance jobs. And so we decided to build a service where our team would go into the only the best the cream-of-the-crop listing sites and and do a bunch of Google search and Linkedin search and all that kind of thing to find just the best freelance jobs we could and then we even pair that list down even more and we deliver about 1 or 2% of all the jobs that we see over the course of a week and we send those two are freelance members. And so they're getting literally the best jobs that are available on the internet for Freelancers.

Small monthly fee. We don't take a percentage of the of the money that you make many clients that you get or anything like that. It's just a lead-generation service to save you hours every week. That's amazing. I mean he's getting out of the gates and what more could you want? Right? I mean by your search by all means but why not start right there. So yeah, it's it's a bit of a shortcut some really good things from our members. This this one guy. His name is Rob. He signed on with a goal of starting a freelance writing business and within the first month. He had booked $5,000 of recurring Revenue in his business from gigs that he found on solid gigs on right you did a lot of work for that. It wasn't just handed to him but solid gigs played a huge part in in his growth as a freelancer for sure.

Amazing. The resources are in this I'm telling it is the Facebook group mention as well. There's the newsletter that I think people should subscribers. Well, I just I appreciate it and then there's something as well that I'd love for you to show the audience wishes to eat book and then I'm going to head back to Julian after that but I just for you to still tell us about the email came inside while great it's been it's been a huge honor to chat with you guys on a blast the e-book is basically the DIY version of solid gigs. So if you don't want now you can try solid gigs for $2 literally $2, but if for some reason you can't or don't want to try solid gigs as a way of generating freelance bleeds, we have taken our list of sites the actual sites that we review as a team and that we pluck the best freelance jobs from we compiled that list on an ebook. We've raided them would give him some more information about which ones we think are the best and how to use them and how to find the best jobs on those sites.

And we've just pack it all in one place and get it for free. You can just visit m i l l o. Co free and you can download that free ebook and give it a shot yourself in if you find that it works for you great. And if not, you can you can level up to solid gigs and will do the hard work for you. But either way it is to work very well.

Freelance the founders of production of mellow you can discover more business building resources for Freelancers at m i l l o. Co by visiting get dripper is distributed by the Pod Cormorant. You can check out their other great podcast at the pod in the theme music was produced by Darude. You can subscribe to the show and apple podcasts Spotify or by searching freelance to founder in your favorite podcast player. We love to have you join us on its upcoming episode to learn more visit freelance to found her. Com episode until next time keep up the hard work and will see you soon. See you

Everyone is present if you're working hard to build up your own agency, which I know many of you are and you really should listen to a podcast from my friend James Rose. The show is called the agency highway and it's for agencies and Freelancers who want to grow their business and work less each episode features. Someone has taken on a major obstacle or problem faced by agencies and completely blown through it with a generating leaves charging more getting more done in less time. I can personally guarantee that you'll find something valuable for your business in each and every episode to listen to visit agency highway or just search agency Highway in your favorite podcast player.
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