New Books in Intellectual History - Michael Rectenwald, "Beyond Woke" (New English Review Press, 2020)

A few short years ago, Michael Rectenwald was a Marxist professor at NYU, pursuing his career and contemplating becoming a Trotskyist, when the political climate on campus - victimology, cancel-culture, no-platforming, and political correctness run-amok - began to bother him. He responded by creating a Twitter handle, @AntiPCNYUProf (now @TheAntiPCProf), and began bashing campus excesses with humor and biting satire. Predictably, he was soon discovered and pushed out of his job. Rectenwald struc

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High today, my guest is Michael rectenwald author of the book beyond woke published in 2020 by the new English review, press welcome Michael. Thanks for having me. Yeah, it's always a pleasure to have you on we spoken before and other forms of for him. So I really feel like I know what kind of a very interesting discussion we can have and we've had before eyes are listeners know. I am joining you from Trinidad and Tobago in the Caribbean. Where are you located right now? Yeah. I'm in the southside of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Okay, right nice, but we always like to start off these interviews with you giving that you're telling us the audience a little bit more about your background and I'm particularly as a relates to this book. Can you do that for us?

I was an academic for 25 years. I've taught at numerous universities. I thought at the Case Western Reserve University Carnegie Mellon University. I taught at

North Carolina Central University Duke University and finally at a New York University NYU and I was my background academically is in what's called literary and cultural studies, which is a program in English and it's a a very play charge the academic discipline. So I will saw basically indoctrinator. I should say. I became Sperry steeped in.

You know, if this theoretical underpinnings of socialism feminism postmodern Theory etcetera etcetera, and I take that I took that into mine.

Into my teaching and it was basically informing my worldview as well right now. That's interesting. So, I mean you were you don't advocate of a lot of these left-wing cultural studies ideas. Did you call yourself woke at the time while that phrase once I'm out, you know you even the phrase social justice wasn't really Oak wrong at that time.

And for example, something like that.

Toxic masculinity was not right Was Not Afraid from circulation during my academic studies at that time. It was something like salo-salo the sentencing, you know, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Right, right. Yes. Oh, so it is as as the ideology work with morphing to what it is today. You found yourselves at odds with it and not only theoretically but it affected affected your professional life. Very sick hospice ideology an identity politics and what we now call wokeness. I say so immediate backlash from all events in ministration to the point where they push push me onto a paid leave of absence condemned me in a open letter in the student newspaper basically tarnish my reputation forever and Academia and throw me to the margins of the University moved my office to the Russian Department. I was universally Sean by 100.

Faculty members in my apartment apartment. I was pushed into what I called my own personal do log-in department where they would not move my books and I sat in an empty room with metal totally isolated. Wow. Wow. That's really interesting because it's it's not that you know, you you were a conservative, you know English scholar, you know, that that was constantly battling with the the left and he knows who you take another right winger conservative, you know, Christina or sensitive privileged white male privilege is being taken away. Is this is this is something isn't yours you were like one of them and then because what you ask difficult questions, or are you question certain things that they just wouldn't have it is is that it? Yeah, that's right. I was

Are there left in the people that actually came out against me at the moment? I made the critiques that I did. I was a less communist, you know and identity politics, you know, so I was actually for a bit less than that. And that's the real irony. So I said that the craziness of the identity politics of the Lesser example was an ALT right generator, you know, I was saying it was generating the alt-right in effect by virtue of its own insanity and things like that what they took real sense to

Oh, wow. Wow now yeah, that's that's really interesting and and and its power to a lot of other people on the left to being criticizing identity politics Aika Jimmy Dore who I really love it in the USA. George Galloway in the UK with his Workers Party Brendan O'Neill from Spike to also was a Marxist and Andy, you know have a very heavy I critique critique of identity politics one. I think is Brendan O'Neill. He said, you know, every identity possible except your class identity and if it's a mask for it, what would you say? Your your criticism is kind of along those lines or a little it was slightly different.

As a Marxist, I wrote an essay called what's wrong with identity politics and my argument was that instead of liberating. The people that that that were in the categories coordinated category that it actually serve to reapply the categories and and Ashley solidify their containment within those category instead of liberating them from the categories, which I thought was the real to be the real objective because of the categories of the problem. Then why can't why not get rid of the categories themselves instead of reinforcing them through grievance studies and things like that after all this people were you know, what's been called grievance studies since the

Article by the big giant in a multiple sort of like the sofa. So go she and I forget the third guy. In fact, this is grievance studies.

If those color were those people that does color for writing about happened to be liberated from those categories. What was they have to do that? There's they're there. Their Enterprise would be. But my point was in that I say what's wrong with identity politics and I still up on my website. By the way. I argued that the identity politics and only at the equality of the category supposedly rather than what would be more important would be Universal human emancipation which would require Liberation from the categories of cells.

Right. Now you speak about Liberation from the categories and you know people on on that identity politics left. Let's see a lot of them speak about abolishing whiteness. I'm what would you say that. Lines up with your project? But the thing is supposed to be for effectively saying they want to abolish whiteness, but they don't want to abolish and at the other category, they're trying to affect the kind of inversion of the social hierarchy whether they know it or not. That's what it would amount to and that's what it is a mild version ideology. That's it's a conversion ideology based on a kind of resent tomorrow Nietzsche indiscretion and they want to deliver a people are they want to eradicate whiteness? I should say about eradicating any of these so-called subordinate identities there for what they would end up with is merely a kind of version.

the social hierarchy of Stacy it

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Let's talk about being the title of your book beyond woke. So, can you explain what you mean by Beyond woke and why it's important and it would be important to say the first of all that's phrases used by the world crowd themselves, and I was trying to fool a few of them into buying the book frankly and they mean by a sort of like a supercharged hyper wokeness. You know, I've gone beyond just being well, I'm really what you know, and I am so well that I know how woke you are and you're not woken us and so on and so forth for me you said it was rather something different. It's kind of like analogous to Beyond Good and Evil and which needs you arguing about morality. I'm talking about super speech the super session of something that's not not subsequent to it, but Superior to it something that is over.

Over it now very over it and I mean by that this is about her compulsion heard a herd mentality and a compulsion to behave a certain way according to the dictates of groupthink. Whereas I don't believe that moral Behavior can be attained through compulsion of the her that it's an individual matter. And so to be truly moral is to be on his to be on welcome to be truly free of to be on low.

Right, right. So that's that's interesting that again in some ways. I suppose it isn't a Mite would I be right to say that you may share some of the ultimate goals of a let's say, you know Liberation from oppression. It's not that you're you're against that butt. You know, this wokeness is is something else. It's a Herdman it's it's a herd mentality except as you as you described it and to be Beyond woke is is not necessarily to reject. You know, these I I suppose who the goals of Liberation but to reject that hold Paradigm or passage is that yes, I called I don't think it is anyway Liberatore.

At all, I think it actually is very very very much and oppression in itself form of control with the form of a totalitarian impulse behind it. And it's a way of destroying people it's not it has nothing to do with

Liberating anybody it's a means of destruction of people of the so-called enemies. If it isn't even really aiming at the liberation of the people that it claims to be liberating or hopes deliberate because in effect that are used Us pools mostly to destroy the the supposed enemies of those people sell their real objective is not the people that they claim to 220 who's on whose behalf they claim to be operating. The real objective is the destruction of the so-called enemy of those people really the objective I think.

You're not that interesting in your critique, you're talking about the totalitarian impulse because you are on the left that I myself. You know, what you know, a guy supposed to say, I was a former communist Marxist in the 1980s and 90s. And yeah, what one of the one of the criticisms of of Marxism and socialism and communism is Latino or I'll eat the ideas of of I suppose, you know Justice in the ending of a question is is great. But communism is an effective totalitarian ideology and it is actually crushes people and I want to go out as a left-winger. Were you at your other Marxist that are someone who wrote you know and Marcus tracks and so forth. I were you I also critical of the totalitarianism Within

Marxism or or the Communist groups that you were parked. That is a left or libertarian communist to his very critical of the Bolsheviks and they're what I what I thought was there usurpation of the working class movement and the establishment of a party dictatorship which is which is and then became a state dictatorship. I believe that that was that was an actual

You know betrayal of the Marxist ideology that it was not necessarily the case and that it wasn't the object of Marxism. So I I thought that those people have usurped Marxist ideas and use them to affect political dictatorship. Where is it wasn't necessary. I thought I don't drink anymore. I think it's always necessarily leaves to fill tala tarantism. Right? Right. Yeah. I understand that too. Because you know, I I I was also critical the Soviet Union and you know, I had aligned myself with many independent Marxist, since you were the smartest used to write for some of these journals and and organs that we're human is Mark this and what not right? I did. I worked I wrote for a humanist Marxist website.

I wrote I work so I wrote four Insurgent notes, which was the left communist the group I wrote for basically just a leftist group magazine called Northstar which is now out of speculation, I believe so. Yeah, I work I wrote for a lot of fun Marcus groups and their websites and stuff like that. But I found my scholarship was in another area wasn't secularism. But yeah, that's that's what I did for the era. It was sort of my paraprofessional our location work in terms of let's see your your your PhD working and secularization. That's interesting does not have any bearing on your essays and Beyond work. I mean

About you no religious your salvation and you sort of ideas at that sort of run through the wokeness. Yes. In fact, I level of critique on social justice ideology or and wokeness from the secularist standpoint of that that they are religious in in nature and that that's fine. You can have whatever religion you want. But those religions should not be dominating public institutions for example, especially in and I'd United States where the separation cloth and they should they should be identified as religious that stops and I'm basically arguing in different places knows that face and I've argued this in springtime for snowflakes as well. What we need is a post back to their standpoint.

How secular standpoint in which we have a service supervening neutral Arbiter rather than some sort of a social justice Arbiter of these institutions so that they're not operating under a sort of bailed religious pretense.

Right, right when you said you had adopted your moniker the anti PC NYU prof. Are you a Marxist at the time at the very beginning? Yes. I was I will when I find interesting then is just your thought process because anti-pc was usually used by people on the right. And so you had still considered yourself on the left, but you you use that for the Monica. What was your thing at the time? Well, I wanted a critique, you know, social justice and identity politics and answer critique them from the left, but I was sort of laying with some by virtue of calling myself anti-pc, and I wanted to show that you didn't need to be right wing to be at CIBC been. In fact, you could be less and be inside PC.

DC ideology or PC culture PC enforcement was very dictatorial and I just I just think that self-esteem dictatorial ideology say my my enemy was always totalitarianism. So

that's why I adopted that moniker and then I started to tweet these things and then whenever you know these critiques of like the bias reporting hotlines in the University Z safe spaces, the trigger warnings that you no platforming of speaker. And then when I did, you know, they they picked up on it the newspaper and why use newspaper reporter on the student newspaper reporter one of the interview I did the interviewing and I'm within two days of doing that interview. I was pushed out of the University leave of absence was very strongly that you're worse than to it and then condemned by this group called The diversity equity and inclusion Fruit Loops who really stood me in these orwellian terms. It was unbelievable. It was like a tribunal and they actually declared me guilty.

Acosta so then what happened is I started to see the totalitarian impulses behind leftism in general a minute. Just an ID. When I recall this in my essay in & Beyond woke is called first as tragedy then as farce outer how I left Mark and in that essay, I recall how it was the totalitarian.

No, I'm dirty underbelly of leftism play just be nice this egalitarian veneer that really scared me the hell out of it and it woke me up. It was a trauma. So I really I really don't think that people change their world use based on simply argumentation or something like that. I really think trauma or is smelly or something like, this is necessary for these kind of excuse tall ships that I had and I had a Gestalt shift it just all which almost instantaneously it was just like an idiot.

I saw the world entirely differently. It was really quite extraordinary. Yeah, I I really identified with that. We are around a mate. I got growing up in the seventies and eighties to be a free thinker kind of LED you to Marxism. It was a kind of trade it was taboo show a lot of free-thinkers went there, but that but then as you discovered as as you stay underneath the surface, they're not really free thinkers now. Yeah, I thought that's what you found. Is it I found it to be absolutely prohibited off free thought you had to embrace Embrace repeat rehearse.

Andrea irritate a certain point of view and perspective constantly and everything had to be seen in the same way that everybody had to adopt the same position with reference to everything and that you know, there was this whole set of ideas that you must adhere to created from any of them you were you were in deep doo-doo, you know, you would be extracted and everything else. So yeah, I found that it was just prohibitive of free thought.

Right stop to get back to the to the book. The book is is a collection of essays and were written between 2016 and 2020 cover things theme deck social justice postmodern Theory political correctness socialism communism corporate socialism. These are some of the things we talked about wrote them to substantial books a springtime for snowflakes social justice and its postmodern parentage and also the Google archipelago the digital Gulag and the simulation Freedom. How does this book relate to the haunted his collection of essays relate to both of those books. Does it give a kind of background to them? It overlaps? It overlaps someone with some of them it overlaps with Springtime for snowflakes in that I I do go over my I do have essays in there.

And Beyond Welk that I'm recapitulate to some extent the history that I underwent at in Academia. Particularly at NYU, but it doesn't go into the deep Siri in the way that Springtime for snowflakes. Does Prince Springtime for snowflakes is a memoir of my academic career and that is inclusive of my graduate work in both of the that's the real need of that book chapters 5 and 6 very deep deep sea erotic water try to find the brutes about social justice ideology in Beyond world. I do treat some of that but from a much more colloquial of prospective language-wise and so forth. So you don't have to have a Ph.D. And Siri understand what I'm talking about, although I tried to break things down as well as I could in springtime for snowflakes.

So there will not be a fat as well. But it also treats other topics. I treat sample off corporate socialism really don't get into that later. I do go into how I left Marxism. I do go into more critiques of social justice. There's a history of social justice in there and Beyond world richest race. Is it off from all the way back to 1842 first use my Belushi Chiapparelli the judge with the priest and there's a lot more in there. I think it's kind of a nice compendium of work. They're all Standalone essays that can be read in any order. You know, some of them are two pages phone number 25 in there, but it's not there's no technical academic.

Would you say there is a centerpiece essay in the collection or maybe a corovessis embarrass called up first as tragedy then as farce or hang a left Marxism and that goes into the history of my my Archer from Marxism but it goes into it from the standpoint of reading Whittaker Chambers book witness and then comparing my experience to hit us out of its first year sure, you know, so Whittaker Chambers writes about how in Navasota, you know in the Soviet Union there was this German marks us to travel to the Soviet Union and he was he was over there and then one night he heard the screaming of people that were being drugged awesome. Somebody was being flooded out of their home probably take it to the gulag work.

About to be executed or something like that one of the two and it just snaps his Consciousness and he just said that was it. That was all it took. So I talked about how I heard screaming as well as different wasn't certainly I wasn't living in a socialist their Soviet state. I wasn't living under communism so to speak but I heard screams I heard they were directed at me from the left and it's just not my Consciousness open and it just sort of it was very surreptitious that got under the surface of though and past the point of no ideological Steelers Iron Curtain, if you will betray too deeply into my psyche and totally reoriented me, so that that's really what I talk about it, Stop it. Chambers. I had the best take on why people becomes communist and why they leave it and I found that it was very parallel to my own experience.

Right right. Now as you say, I mean, you're the essays are very long. Like I think 20 Pages might be one of the longer ones and then sometimes very short like this like a couple gauges in socks. I think it's the shortest one. Congratulations. I'm not really resonates with me that that particular story Ziad Ahmed to get can you just go through that a little and cuz I want to discuss some of the issues with it. Yeah. There was a student in this is a real a true story reply to Stanford. I think it was in the year 2017 or 18th to become a freshman at Stanford, you know for his admission to the university and then turn on the admissions essay question what matters to you and why?

This student wrote hashtag black lives matter a hundred times and was admitted to the university and he boasted about this song is Twitter account and he actually posted a copy of the essay, you know, that's a PDF or REI and it showed that that was the content of his ass handed to me that just out early underscored what the universities were looking for. Now. They're actually looking for people would be smoking repeater. They're looking for people to be singers in the social justice Choir they're looking for people to do exactly what people are doing in these universities with your running around screaming at people and it's not at its not at all intellectual inquiry whatsoever. It's complete regurgitation of a certain.

Raices Latinas how Basin low it's gone. It's just unbelievable. I wrote a fictional response to him from when I go to Stanford University with some people take for a real response to be real but it mustn't may as well be the answer. I'm in the response that they gave him.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you know, I got that whole episode to it. It it underscored at so many of the the contradictions of the movement to because the guy who did it. Ahmed II should have looked I looked into his background because because I just found that particular story to be so incredible and so many things Steven Saylor Steve Sailer wrote a tweet in response with which I thought was great. He said, you know insufferably ambitious non-blacks Ian of hedge fund tiger dad rides black lives matter from Princeton Day School to Stanford hilarious. His dad was the CEO of Citibank having grown up in Toronto.

Immigrant parents I've seen a lot of immigrants ride on the Civil Rights narrative, which I think is totally wrong. Right the experience of an immigrant is not the same as a descendant of an American slave and that whole struggle is sort of marginalized in India's Steve Sailer puts it. Well, you know these Tiger Tiger children that you know, the whole thing of the tiger Monsey, he's very ambitious Asian immigrants high-performing very wealthy said he's using black lives matter into Stanford. And yeah, I didn't know about his background. I was just looking at it from the standpoint of

They're their acceptance of this was just unbelievable to me exactly. I'm so you see how is being played right B A. He's just a Peeping these things Stanford saying a great. Proud to have you and here's this guy running. What do they call? It is running all these kind of steak little consultancies for Generation Z and diversity and like that are just on paper only and collecting all this money and and he's just he's doing tedx talk. He's just so transparently fake and ambitious and this is just the new thing if it was the eighties, he'd be like greed-is-good, right? But now it's black lives matter be a TCP sangritas good. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, you know that he smiled thing in order to get ahead. Yeah, it's just it's just too naked ambition. And these people at Stanford can't even tell the difference. They can't tell the difference but it's even if it was a black student that wrote that I think it's a ludicrous respond. That's right. I mean shouldn't esab an argument rather than some sort of a repetition of a phrase of a dose of a social justice a mantra. I mean, it's just exactly and it's going to take all sorts of weird permutations Beach because of this because it is playing into the same old power game that that we that was known about an injustice becomes a whole new kind of the black lives movement as a kind of human shield in order to be you know, in order to it's running interference for him and I

Ascent into the suit Stratosphere of diversity

consultants in an unbelievable. Just one more thing from from sailor who is very Politically Incorrect, but he's really good. Sometimes he had one of his responses to this is I for one welcome our new Shameless reblock exploiting white Beijing tiger child overlords. What was one of the things in your yearbook to at you have these theoretical these theoretical pieces that go into the depths and cannot wait you have you know, some of these like Snippets like this showing some of the absurdities in the movie, but you also have a nice to pull the part of your Springtime for snowflakes kind of methodology as well. If you want to call it. But you have a lot of personal stories like ya said NYU

Elections on the degradation of the faculty you have a history and Marxism even seems like your uncomfortableness was being right wing and then you also have a deeply personal account of your relationship with Sadie, you know, which is quite moving as well. You know, you want to go through any of them or should I think it's an even know why you took the slanted as well? Yeah. Sure. I'll take the bait on 281 of all that's not a real. I want to keep her and on on this for her benefit, but mine was somebody that I basically ushered into Academia. She was my my my girlfriend my my partner if you will and she was a dancer and choreographer in New York, and I we met him so unloved and

He wanted to become an academic because you know, you saw the insecurities of where y'all Goin fer and trying to you know, make it that way forever. She had done it and so I basically translated her dance career into academic terminology and I put a package but it that way and I got it. I helped her get a job at a really well-respected little College in Pennsylvania and a little private school. And I'm done when she got there when she got there. She became more and more insufferable by the day started.

She started like all these ridiculous statements about how she was a feminist and oh, by the way the title of that essay is called.

Have you found that place that makes you want to swallow its rhetoric whole week was just something I picked off the internet by buy some salmon has marks is basically saying what what she would accept for a mate and they couldn't say this or that and so on so forth. Anyway, she swallowed the rhetoric whole day off of everything and she became insufferable all of a sudden. She was a radical feminist. She started seeing us what I call a fainting couch feminist therapist. She she became the

You know the archetypical archetypical.

Social justice Warrior type and it was just unbelievable. So are our breakup really had to do with that at the same time that I was coming out against now, it's this really you just reached the Peak at the same time. So at the moment I was I was my relationship with NYU became very apparent to that. It was happening in my personal life. So I really had a lot of upheaval it wants out of time. So I reckon I mean and I'm being you you are very, you know, I'm opening and revealing about it cuz I mean, even your relationship with Sadie has started it, I mean your marriage was breaking up in trouble than you anyway. In the ass day and so-so you you got together in the tumultuous time and then you know, and and they were all sorts of

You know episodes and an option Downs at that you were late at was a point. I mean what I got from it was that you or your kind of showing the personal consequences of this ideology. It manifests itself in people's life histories causes severe interruptions and problems my personal life and it caused a lot of problems like she started to see a feminist therapists are in the same time a real as a matter of fact her psychiatrist. What was the person who is now the

The head of health services in the Pennsylvania the person calling the shots on the covid-19 transfer. That was her psychiatrist or therapist was also a radical feminist and all the sudden her language used all started the change and so did our whole relationship history. She started using different ways of talking about it. All the sudden words like abuse came in and she had never and there was nothing abusive about our relationship. But now all the sudden he's new words. I came in and showed reframe the whole relationship in a different time with different terms and it ruined it was introduced. That was the beginning of the end.

It really showed the very deeply personal way, you know some of the insides of Orwell about language a language. I felt its reality. What's the language changes in the word meanings change and there's a certain dictatorial use of language that has to be abided by you know, you're on your way to who I really am solitary way of being and its it starts to alter reality. Absolutely. By the way, I could just out of interest is a Sadie actually read your piece. I have no idea. I don't know. I want to point out a connection. I see between Sadie and zahid Ahmed

Makes it so interesting as well as a feminist, but she was a spoiled, you know, all of this on to this manicured kind of University campus that you always aspired to and she was there and roadmap supposed to be rode mic Odell. I wrote up every document. She ever submitted to her College every morning through the all the way through

Can your file every document entertain your files? Well, right, right. Yeah, you you would do that again. What would I see? You're not is Izzy's Amaro social climbers write a Social climbers both anxiety and that you are just using this ideology as this is just the thing today. And as I said, it was a Tuesday be in a corporate or whatever it is is the the ideology of a corporatism today. They're on it just happens. That STW isn't is the corporate ideology of today examples how she was like, we would go to a swimming pool. Okay.

In the suburb of a of a small town in Pennsylvania, I won't say which one it will give away our college and then her if there weren't any black people at the pool. There's no black people here and I liked it. So she was black people as a kind of fixture what kind of fixture for herself approval her own self-esteem a way of giving herself credits in a social credits if you will for having the right.

When is you for having the right ideology? So black people weren't people they were just swear to figments are fixtures that she would use to us again guilty conscience and it's a way of having the right identification criteria just unbelievable, but I would say so what I mean, what are you using them for? I'm just kind of the sort of amoral social climber thing that I've seen both of those those examples and its alignment with the corporate ideology of the day you speak to that a lot in the back of your ass to deal with capitalism your arguments.

Yessir, I saw I started looking into this phenomenon of woke capitalism. So why are these corporations mouthing Analyse these bromides, you know these social justice bromides and why are they why are they suddenly embracing leftism after all the space that you and I know the relations between the last and corporations of what's going on here. I was trying to figure it out. So it looked at some of the explanations, you know others they were satisfactory to me. So I saw that there was actually that's stressing us this new leftism aligns perfectly. Well with their own corporate interests that all these big strong is on the new leftist play sheet or or ideological Doctrine.

Aligned perfectly with corporate interest right now. No borders. No Global is also the new identity categories. You know who this is new Niche markets for corporations. I just lined up all of the Bluetooth pairing Alexa more or less in my mind in the in a parallel column writing a sub Bingo scene of it. This is not some sort of just mere placation. They're not just placating these people this actually works for them and you know, so that's why I called the corporate socialism and I thought what is the ultimate objective here? And why are corporations Ashley Corporation capitals corporations actually doing socialist ideology.

Exactly and it makes sense if you think about it because what they're looking for is more or less de facto monopolies on top and quote unquote actually existing socialism for everybody else that is a kind of know de facto so-called equality between all of the all the masses and their domination of monopolization at the top, you know, and that's what seems to be going on. Yeah. Yeah. It's a really important phenomenon to look at it and no other people like like you said Ross do Sasha and I didn't get rid of us talking about them about billionaires, you know, using a charity and all that other cover as they continue to rape and exploit the world Freitag. It just it's just really

Stinging and important another kind of paradoxical thing that you put together in a like woke apples. And is Google Marxism. Well, it's very similar, but it's it's it's the way that it why not I started looking at why is Google such a left-wing group? I mean, why are they such a left-wing in Oakley Station? What why are they releasing the web? Why are they base in a basically slanting all of their results? Why are they blacklisting, you know verboten right-winger other than leftist websites. Why are they what are they? Why did they try to make sure that Donald Trump's you no arguments in favor of Trump would be the Dlisted Rd bunker wait, you know listed way down at the bottom what was going on here and to me it

It's very much the same thing that they're Google Marxism is just the the internet version of corporate socialism. Yeah. Now on the new books network has a large part of our audience our faculty members grad students Slaughter University. A lot of people who would probably in a beat on the SW sjw Side by people and I think an interesting chapter se you have in this Which Wich resonated with me because you know, I I witnessed it to as an academic the destruction of the faculty just just a hole sir. I mean, I I can give you my stories of how I saw the fact was he just keeps reading

Over you know the time I was there as well. Why don't you just think that should be of interest to a lot of the listeners here, especially maybe the ones that are being in Academia for a while and seen some of these changes themselves. Yeah. I mean, it's just a episode that I recount in that chapter. It showed to me that that intellectual academic qualifications came to me unless unless overtime and that identity premium and that tokenism was prop with prominent at that tokenism was being used to promote people and I think first of all, let me preface this by saying

Preface I should say I want to track with this by saying that I think that Excellence is found in every category of human being okay with that. There is no question in my mind that excellent scholar semifinals from any group, but it seemed to me that there was a hasty use of people as tokens and and no regard at all for their qualifications and I stop you from being hired that were Couldn't Write a sense now and passing over other people based on their identity and then all kinds of other sort of Star-Ledger the main going on with people being promoted and hired on the basis of their connections and cronyism and just you know egregious hiring some people like somebody that was tired, but had no teaching experience. No Publications. No Advanced degree Beyond a ba in

Some mediocre Midstate college and yet they were hired over phds in English that had come from the top 10 universities in the world in the world. Yeah. So yeah, I talked about that and I tried to explain what I think is happening and why it's happening. I won't give all that away, but it's in the book.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I I could I could definitely identify and I'm sure a lot of listeners can to some of these really questionable hires. And then you said if they are the contributions they make at faculty meeting my God I said listen, I mean they're really smart people out there and it really does it does a disservice to the people the groups that they're trying to help that's right knee is the worst part of it because what it says, this is Chad skepticism Shelby Steele sort of Uno circle of every black person her every every person that comes from disadvantaged circumstances.

That's right. I see a face in Ohio identity categories that are wanted today makes you look askance at every single person which you shouldn't do you shouldn't have this overriding skepticism. So Excellence was the criteria rather than identity then we wouldn't have this problem.

Exactly as you say it it does sort of you know, it's totally counterproductive. Especially let's say a white person doesn't have a lot of exposure in their personal life becoming less and less now, but as soon as the people from in other background and I'm the only one they have is this under-qualified. You don't need to come poop in your in your face swell on Bell start drinking now, I see this is the best that group has just not true. That's right. The true so sad circumstance and it's really hastily Donna's. It's really sloppy Administration. It's just the sloppy plugging in playing of social group, you know, identity Politics as well as the main.

Certified rule under which all of this and doctor. Do you know instead of instead of a kind of a kind of indiscriminate search for excellent. I think has to be first. Absolutely. Absolutely. Where do you see wokeness going? Well, you see where it's going. Right right now. I'm at call it woke so will call at arianism. It's going insane. It's becoming violent. It's

It is coming cancel culture to the max people being cancelled editor positions the New York Times the Philadelphia Inquirer other other paper magazines all over the country people that make any time of slub verbally any phrase the thought is suddenly gone. I mean, this is really where where am I wearing that I'm wearing a mile is cultural revolution up for and Soviet sort of stuff. And if you think that cancel culture is new take a look at the Soviet Union and China. It's not new at all.

We're we're we're in a really bad place where it's gotten to the point that.

You know free free spot is absolutely for both literally.

I mean do you think that you know, there will be a resistance against it that would break it down. Will it collapse under its own country diction do they eat themselves or are you now or in a culture as it is? Right. So we're going to reach a real low state of cultural meaning and potential and viability where else it's just going to destroy so much that will be left with will be left with a kind of ruins and I ruined cultural and civilizational ruin that will happen then we'll see who reconstructed from their right. I think it's just going to lead to a totally dissertation of her.

How far Society I'm sorry to say but would you say that there is a message from this book this collection of essays that you'd like to leave your readers with.

Yes, kept me on well and and and admonition.

1 are there any projects are working on right now? I know you're writing a new book. I'm writing a novel actually on the other looking into it. It's probably it's called it's called the collective mind virus and sci-fi. It is dystopian, but I won't give away the ending about

Retaining individual in around in a world, which is an individual who are under constant threat of the selfie razor by an overwhelming power structure of Conformity and mine has lost control which is done in this book through technology.

You can just get your materials from the newspaper's now. Can you overlap with other things and I'm glad I don't because that would inhibit me. I don't know. No that's been said before I just I set up the world creation certain constraints and circumstances and then I left the plot unfold from there.

Great. Great. Yeah, so should we look forward to that coming out? You said you're almost finished. Your listeners are in a want to get in touch with you and your workout. Do you have a website, it can it'll connect you to my home is a that aren't published in the Beyond welcome book or elsewhere. Well, although there's a lot of published essays on there. It says they're not in beyond all of my interviews. This will be on this interview will be listed all my media sayings that I've had that I think you're quite busy and interesting.

Auto Gallery of fine reader Saint Francis famous friends and so on and so forth Michael rectenwald een Craig been will definitely put a link in the blog accompanying this interview you so much for this has been a pleasure talking to you. Thanks for having me. It's my pleasure to be here with you. Once again, the book is beyond woke published by the new English review press and we've been speaking to the author Michael rectenwald. It's been a pleasure. Take care.

That's all for politics and polemic this week. If you like this remember to check on my other podcast independent thought and freedom and subscribe to my YouTube channel. Also, if you are an academic and wants to get her nationally check out my free training, I'd become a public intellectual. Com. Thanks and see you next week.
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